battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom
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battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom [2019-08-15 11:40] – replace Venus-device with GX device guy_stewart | battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom [2025-01-30 08:29] (current) – ['High voltage' warning or alarm shown on battery status] guy_stewart | ||
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- | ====== Victron & Pylontech US2000, US3000 | + | ====== Victron & Pylontech |
The combination of Victron products with Pylontech lithium batteries has been tested and certified by the Victron and Pylontech R&D departments. | The combination of Victron products with Pylontech lithium batteries has been tested and certified by the Victron and Pylontech R&D departments. | ||
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{{: | {{: | ||
- | ^ Battery ^ US2000 (Plus) ^ US3000 ^ Force-L1 ^ | + | ^ Battery ^ UP2500* ^ US2000 (Plus/C) ^ US3000(C) ^ UP5000 & US5000(B) ^ Pelio-L |
- | | Module capacity| | + | | Nominal voltage |
+ | | Module capacity | ||
+ | | Minimum Venus firmware | v3.50 | v3.50 | v3.50 | v3.50 | v3.50 | v3.50 | v3.50 | | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | 24V: UP2500 | ||
+ | 48V: US2000, US3000, US2000C, US3000C, US5000, US5000B, UP5000, | ||
+ | 51.2V: Pelio-L, UF5000 | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | * Note that UP2500 came in two versions, UP2500N__A__01V00101 does not have a CANBUS port, and IS NOT supported by Victron. UP2500N__B__01V00101 released April 2020 has the CANBUS port and IS supported. | ||
=== 1.1 Offgrid, Backup and Energy Storage Systems are possible === | === 1.1 Offgrid, Backup and Energy Storage Systems are possible === | ||
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Victron + Pylontech can be used for the following system types: | Victron + Pylontech can be used for the following system types: | ||
- | * Off-grid | + | * Off-grid |
- | * Grid Backup | + | * Grid Backup |
- | * Energy Storage Systems - Self Consumption ([[ess: | + | * Energy Storage Systems |
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | === 1.2 A GX-device is required, eg Cerbo GX or Venus GX (VGX) === | ||
+ | It is essential to use the CAN-bus connection of the [[venus-os: | ||
- | === 1.2 A GX-device is required, eg Color Control | + | For new systems, the minimum required firmware version for the [[https:// |
- | It is essential to use the CAN-bus connection of the [[venus-os: | + | Legacy systems installed |
- | The minimum required firmware version for the [[https:// | ||
+ | === 1.3 All Multi, MultiPlus, MultiGrid and Quattro are compatible === | ||
- | === 1.3 All 48V Multi, MultiPlus, MultiGrid | + | As long as you are using the appropriate model for the nominal battery voltage, all VE.Bus inverters |
- | The minimum firmware version is 422. Though updating to the latest firmware is recommended where possible. | + | The minimum firmware version |
These inverter/ | These inverter/ | ||
+ | Legacy systems installed with VE.Bus firmware 422 can continue to be used without upgrade as long as they do not present any issues. | ||
- | === 1.4 All 48V VE.direct | + | === 1.4 All VE.Direct |
For proper operation, the Pylontech battery needs to be able to control the charge current. Therefor it is recommended to use Victron 48V compatible MPPTs models with VE.Direct port for charging. | For proper operation, the Pylontech battery needs to be able to control the charge current. Therefor it is recommended to use Victron 48V compatible MPPTs models with VE.Direct port for charging. | ||
Line 52: | Line 67: | ||
__MPPTs with a VE.Can port__ | __MPPTs with a VE.Can port__ | ||
- | Use of VE.Can MPPT' | + | New Model (2019 and later) VE.Can MPPTs are also supported from firmware version 1.06 and above. Be aware that some GX devices (e.g. CCGX) only have a single CANBus interface, and that is required for the battery communications. So if you use a new VE.Can MPPT, it must also be with a GX device that has more than one CANbus interface, e.g. the Cerbo GX. |
+ | |||
+ | Old model VE.Can MPPTs (pre 2019) are not supported. | ||
===== 2. Minimum Battery Sizing Recommendations | ===== 2. Minimum Battery Sizing Recommendations | ||
+ | Once DVCC is enabled on the GX device, the charge and discharge rates are managed by the Pylontech battery. | ||
- | Each US2000B Plus battery | + | Using very large solar arrays with battery |
- | The charge | + | You must have the minimum number of battery modules to supply the inverters startup inrush surge currents that charge |
+ | It is much more desirable to have the inverter/ | ||
- | Using very large solar arrays with battery | + | These minimum |
- | You must have the minimum | + | An example of minimum |
- | + | ||
- | Some suggested | + | |
^ Inverter / Charger Model ^ Inv continuous watts @ 25 degrees ^ Inverter peak watts surge rating ^ Number of Pylontech modules ^ Battery continuous discharge watt rating ^ Battery peak discharge watt rating ^ | ^ Inverter / Charger Model ^ Inv continuous watts @ 25 degrees ^ Inverter peak watts surge rating ^ Number of Pylontech modules ^ Battery continuous discharge watt rating ^ Battery peak discharge watt rating ^ | ||
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| Quattro 48/ | | Quattro 48/ | ||
| Quattro 48/ | | Quattro 48/ | ||
- | |||
Line 86: | Line 102: | ||
You can connect multiple battery modules together to form a single large battery by connecting the RJ-45 cable supplied by Pylontech using the link ports on the battery. This is shown in more detail in the [[https:// | You can connect multiple battery modules together to form a single large battery by connecting the RJ-45 cable supplied by Pylontech using the link ports on the battery. This is shown in more detail in the [[https:// | ||
- | The batteries will automatically detect and link to each other, no adjustment of dip switches | + | The communications for UP2500 can be paralleled up to 20 modules per string (and cannot use the LV-HUB). Other models can connect up to 8 battery modules (see Pylontech data sheets), in those models when using more than 8 parallel units, some limitations, |
+ | |||
+ | The batteries will automatically detect and link to each other, no adjustment of dip switches on the battery module are necessary. | ||
The battery with the empty link port 0 is the master battery. | The battery with the empty link port 0 is the master battery. | ||
- | You must use the //VE.Can to CAN-bus BMS type B Cable//, part number ASS030720018, | ||
- | Plug the type B cable with the side which is labeled Battery BMS into the Pylontech CAN port of the master battery. Plug the side labeled Victron VE.Can into the [[venus-os: | + | ** Important note on DIP switches ** |
+ | |||
+ | No adjustment to the DIP switches is necessary, unless you are using a LV-Hub to connect a large number of modules. The address DIP-switches must be set to 000 for correct operation, and the GX device will not detect the battery if you use any other setting. Larger batteries using an LV-Hub is discussed later in this document. | ||
+ | |||
+ | **Type A cable** | ||
+ | |||
+ | The Victron //VE.Can to CAN-bus BMS type A Cable//, part number ASS030710018 is used for connection with US2000C / US3000C / UP5000 / US5000 / US5000B / Force-L. | ||
+ | |||
+ | **Type | ||
+ | |||
+ | The Victron //VE.Can to CAN-bus BMS type B Cable//, part number ASS030720018 is used for connection with US2000 / US3000 / UP2500; | ||
+ | |||
+ | Note you cannot use the comms cable supplied by Pylontech for this connection between the master battery and the GX device. | ||
+ | |||
+ | **Connections** | ||
+ | |||
+ | Plug the communication | ||
+ | |||
+ | Some GX devices (such as the Cerbo GX), have multiple CAN ports. If your GX device has a BMS-Can port, this should be used. If your GX device ONLY has VE.Can ports, you will need to change the VE.Can port profile to CAN-bus BMS (500 kbit/s) for the battery (and then it cannot be used for other VE.Can devices). | ||
+ | |||
+ | Plug the side labeled Victron VE.Can into the [[venus-os: | ||
+ | |||
Then, plug a [[https:// | Then, plug a [[https:// | ||
Line 101: | Line 140: | ||
It is important to ensure this connection and display of the battery on the [[venus-os: | It is important to ensure this connection and display of the battery on the [[venus-os: | ||
+ | ===== 4. GX Device Settings ===== | ||
- | ===== 4. VEConfigure Settings ===== | + | When the Pylontech battery is connected to the BMS-Can port of a GX device (running v2.80 and later) the following DVCC settings will be set and enforced automatically. |
- | You will need the latest firmware on all connected devices. | + | If you are running a GX firmware version prior to this, these will need to be manually configured. |
+ | |||
+ | === Manual Configuration === | ||
+ | |||
+ | On the [[venus-os: | ||
+ | |||
+ | * If your GX device has a BMS-Can port, the battery should be connected to this. | ||
+ | * If you connect the BMS to the VE.Can port you will need to adjust the port speed. Select the //CAN-bus BMS (500 kbit/s)// CAN-profile in the GX device. Menu path: //Settings -> Services -> VE.CAN port//. | ||
+ | |||
+ | After properly wiring and setting the correct CAN-bus speed, the Pylontech will be visible as a battery in the device list. If you have multiple batteries a single entry will show up, which represents all batteries: | ||
+ | {{ : | ||
+ | |||
+ | Next, go to Settings, DVCC, and configure as follows: | ||
+ | |||
+ | ^Venus Settings -> System Setup Parameter ^ Value ^ | ||
+ | |DVCC|ON| | ||
+ | |Shared Voltage Sense |OFF| | ||
+ | |Shared Temperature Sense |OFF| | ||
+ | |||
+ | For more information about the behaviour of DVCC, please see the [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | === Additional optional controls === | ||
+ | |||
+ | Note: The "Limit managed battery charge voltage" | ||
+ | |||
+ | The 'limit charge current' | ||
+ | |||
+ | For example if you only wired in 80A capacity wire / fuses through the system, and didn't want the potential combined power delivery of a generator charging as well as a solar charge, you could limit the total system charging (MPPT + MultiPlus) to that lower level, even though the batteries could potentially absorb more. | ||
+ | |||
+ | === Other information === | ||
+ | |||
+ | The parameters option within the battery page shows the battery charge and discharge limits as communicated to the DVCC system by the BMS. | ||
+ | {{ : | ||
+ | |||
+ | The ' | ||
+ | |||
+ | This parameters page is also a good place to check that all batteries are connected and working properly. The battery data sheet specifies the normal working conditions, e.g. the current limit per cell. For example, If each battery is rated to 25A charge current, and the menu shows a 75A charge current limit ( 75 / 25 = 3 ) means there are 3 Pylontech battery modules connected. | ||
+ | |||
+ | In off-grid systems, the inverter will prioritise running the load, and potentially exceed this Discharge Current Limit. This could lead to the battery shutting down, and why it is important to follow the minimum battery sizing guide. | ||
+ | |||
+ | In grid connected ESS systems, the inverter will do its best to respect the Discharge Current Limit and use the grid to supplement the load if required. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Note that ' | ||
+ | |||
+ | {{ : | ||
+ | |||
+ | The prefix number to the cell voltages and temperature is used to identify which specific battery in the installation is reporting. | ||
+ | |||
+ | The first two numbers are the group number. The group number is only applied for multiple groups of batteries (with LV-hub), otherwise the group number will always shown as 01. | ||
+ | |||
+ | The second two numbers refer to the battery number, starting with 01, 02...up to 16 | ||
+ | |||
+ | The Master battery is located closest on the CAN-bus to the LV-hub, GX device, or group master, and then count sequentially in order from there. | ||
+ | Below is a diagram showing the assignments of group and battery numbers: | ||
+ | |||
+ | {{ : | ||
+ | |||
+ | The firmware requirements for the details menu is documented in the table below. | ||
+ | |||
+ | ^ Product ^ Firmware version ^ | ||
+ | | LV HUB | v1.8 | | ||
+ | | US2000B | v2.9 | | ||
+ | | US2000C & US3000C | v2.1 | | ||
+ | | ForceL | v1.4 | | ||
+ | | US5000 & Pelio-L | All firmware versions | | ||
+ | ===== 5. VEConfigure Settings ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | When using the latest firmware on all compatible | ||
+ | |||
+ | It is possible to override some of these automatic settings to provide additional limitations (e.g. reduce the total charge current that would be provided but the MultiPlus). The following information is provided for that purpose, though is not required for the safe operation of the system. | ||
This section presumes familiarity with [[https:// | This section presumes familiarity with [[https:// | ||
- | === 4.1 General tab === | + | Voltages shown are for the 48V model, and should be scaled for the 24V model. The 24V model is an 8-series configuration while the 48V model is a 15-series configuration. Voltages should therefore be scaled by 8/15. |
+ | |||
+ | === 5.1 General tab === | ||
* Check the " | * Check the " | ||
- | * Set the battery capacity to the total capacity of the battery: eg 50Ah times the number of battery modules for the 2000B Plus model. | + | * Set the battery capacity to the total capacity of the battery: eg 50Ah times the number of battery modules for the US2000 |
* The other parameters (" | * The other parameters (" | ||
- | === 4.2 Charge Settings === | + | === 5.2 Charge Settings === |
=== Charger tab === | === Charger tab === | ||
^ Parameter | ^ Parameter | ||
- | | Battery type | Lithium | | + | | Battery type | Lithium | |
| Charge curve | Fixed | | Charge curve | Fixed | ||
- | | Absorption voltage | + | | Absorption voltage |
- | | Float voltage | + | | Float voltage |
| Absorption time | 1 Hr | | | Absorption time | 1 Hr | | ||
- | Note: make sure to double check the float voltage after completing Assistants, and if necessary set it back to 53.0 V. | + | Note: make sure to double check the float voltage after completing Assistants, and if necessary set it back to 51.0 V. |
- | === 4.3 Inverter Settings === | + | Note For off-grid use: ignore the 'bms assistant required' |
+ | |||
+ | === 5.3 Inverter Settings === | ||
In the Inverter tab of VEConfigure | In the Inverter tab of VEConfigure | ||
^VEConfigure Inverter Parameter | ^VEConfigure Inverter Parameter | ||
- | |DC input low shut-down | 47V| | + | |DC input low shut-down | 44V| |
- | |DC input low restart | + | |DC input low restart |
- | |DC input low pre-alarm* | 48.5V| | + | |DC input low pre-alarm* | 48V| |
Line 168: | Line 281: | ||
If operation is attempted outside the operating range, the battery will disconnect to protect itself. | If operation is attempted outside the operating range, the battery will disconnect to protect itself. | ||
- | ===== 5. GX Device Settings ===== | ||
- | On the [[venus-os: | ||
- | ^Venus Settings -> System Setup Parameter ^ Value ^ | + | ===== 6. VE.Direct MPPT Settings ===== |
- | |DVCC|ON| | + | |
- | |Shared Voltage Sense |OFF| | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * Select the //CAN-bus BMS (500 kbit/s)// CAN-profile in the CCGX. Menu path: //Settings -> Services -> CAN-profile// | + | |
- | + | ||
- | * After properly wiring and setting up, the Pylontech will be visible as a battery in the device list. If you have multiple batteries a single entry will show up, which represents all batteries: | + | |
- | {{ : | + | |
- | + | ||
- | + | ||
- | * The parameters option within the battery page shows the actual battery charge and discharge limits | + | |
- | {{ : | + | |
- | + | ||
- | This parameters page is also a good place to check that all batteries are connected and working properly. In normal working conditions, the current limit is 25A per cell. For example, 75A charge current limit ( 75 / 25 = 3 ) means there are 3 Pylontech battery modules connected. | + | |
- | + | ||
- | ===== 6. VE-Direct MPPT Settings ===== | + | |
In normal operation the MPPT charge characteristics are governed by the [[venus-os: | In normal operation the MPPT charge characteristics are governed by the [[venus-os: | ||
Line 193: | Line 289: | ||
This section presumes familiarity with [[victronconnect: | This section presumes familiarity with [[victronconnect: | ||
- | The settings below are a precautionary measure. | + | The settings below can be set as a precautionary measure. |
^MPPT Parameter ^ Setting ^ | ^MPPT Parameter ^ Setting ^ | ||
|Battery voltage. | |Battery voltage. | ||
- | |Absorption voltage | + | |Absorption voltage |
+ | Note for MPPT RS - the Remote Mode in VictronConnect must be set to Remote on/off, not BMS. | ||
===== 7. Example Wiring Diagram ===== | ===== 7. Example Wiring Diagram ===== | ||
- | {{ : | + | {{: |
===== 8. Troubleshooting ===== | ===== 8. Troubleshooting ===== | ||
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=== Step 0. If the Inverter/ | === Step 0. If the Inverter/ | ||
- | As a safety precaution, | + | When the grid is connected there are two software controls |
- | You can then start the inverter/charger from an external charge source such as a generator or grid connection. Once the inverter/charger has started, it should supply power to the DC terminals | + | If the grid fails and no AC supply is available, in this deeply discharged state, and the battery has set the Discharge Current Limit (DCL) to 0A, then the inverter |
+ | The GX device will remain on, as there is still DC voltage provided by the batteries for a while. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Note in this state an AC PV inverter | ||
+ | |||
+ | If the AC grid or generator, or DC MPPT is connected, then the battery will begin to charge | ||
+ | |||
+ | If instead the battery becomes completely discharged the battery will further protect itself by not just sending the 0A discharge limit, but also disconnecting DC voltage from the battery terminals (via internal MOSFETS). As there is no DC voltage available on the terminals any more the GX device | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you then reconnect | ||
=== Step 1. Check that the Pylontech battery is visible on the GX device list === | === Step 1. Check that the Pylontech battery is visible on the GX device list === | ||
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Pylontech' | Pylontech' | ||
- | You can confirm if this is affecting your installation be entering the Pylontech Battery menu on your GX device, and then the Parameters Menu. This will report the Charge Current Limit (CCL) and Discharge Current Limit (DCL). | + | You can confirm if this is affecting your installation be entering the Pylontech Battery menu on your GX device, and then the Parameters Menu. This will report the Charge Current Limit (CCL) and Discharge Current Limit (DCL). This information is also logged in the advanced section of the VRM monitoring portal. |
- | ==== My system only charges the battery to 52V ==== | + | ==== My system only charges the battery to 52.4V ==== |
When DVCC is enabled, the battery (via the CAN-bms) is responsible for the charge voltage. The Pylontech battery requests a charge voltage of 53.2V. We have however found that in practice this is too high. | When DVCC is enabled, the battery (via the CAN-bms) is responsible for the charge voltage. The Pylontech battery requests a charge voltage of 53.2V. We have however found that in practice this is too high. | ||
Line 254: | Line 359: | ||
It should also be noted that a LiFePO4 cell stores very little additional energy above 3.45V. | It should also be noted that a LiFePO4 cell stores very little additional energy above 3.45V. | ||
- | For this reason we opted to override the BMS and cap the voltage at 52V. This sacrifices almost none of the capacity and greatly improves the stability of the system. | + | For this reason we opted to override the BMS and cap the voltage at 52.4V. This sacrifices almost none of the capacity and greatly improves the stability of the system. |
==== The battery won't charge to 100% ==== | ==== The battery won't charge to 100% ==== | ||
- | Also see the question above. The state of charge of the battery is estimated based on the overall voltage and on how well balanced the internal cells are. Because we cap the battery voltage at 52V, the state of charge will sometimes rise very slowly once it reaches the mid-90s. This is normal and usually resolves over time. | + | Also see the question above. The state of charge of the battery is estimated based on the overall voltage and on how well balanced the internal cells are. Because we cap the battery voltage at 52.4V, the state of charge will sometimes rise very slowly once it reaches the mid-90s. This is normal and usually resolves over time. |
+ | |||
+ | ==== ' | ||
+ | The ' | ||
+ | |||
+ | ==== 'High cell voltage' | ||
+ | The 'high cell voltage' | ||
+ | In an ESS system, set it to 'keep batteries charged', | ||
+ | |||
+ | If you are unable to maintain the target voltage to balance the batteries without the 'high cell voltage' | ||
+ | After sufficient time to balance the batteries, try increasing this value until it can be disabled again for normal operation. | ||
+ | |||
+ | {{: | ||
+ | |||
+ | If it is not possible to raise the voltage over time, and eventually disable this manual override: | ||
+ | |||
+ | 1: If you have 2 or more batteries in your system, you can try shutting down the system once it is as close to fully charged as possible, and then physically connecting the batteries in smaller groups (or even individually) so that balancing can occur on each individual battery without it being masked by the others connected in parallel. It may help you to see the indicator lights on the battery (if available on that model) to find which battery might be out of balance with the others. | ||
+ | |||
+ | 2: Contact your Pylontech dealer for further assistance (they can provide additional software to see individual cell level data), or assist with other potential solutions. | ||
===== 10. Further Information ===== | ===== 10. Further Information ===== | ||
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Further community discussion about installing and using Pylontech and Victron can found at [[https:// | Further community discussion about installing and using Pylontech and Victron can found at [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | === LV-Hub specific information === | ||
+ | |||
+ | Please discuss large Pylontech systems that require the LV-Hub with your experienced Pylontech agent FIRST. These additional LV-Hub references are provided without any support or endorsement from Victron, and should not be assumed to be up to date. Defer to your experienced dealers recommendations. | ||
+ | |||
+ | {{ : | ||
+ | |||
+ | [[https:// | ||
battery_compatibility/pylontech_phantom.1565862016.txt.gz · Last modified: 2019-08-15 11:40 by guy_stewart