ve.bus:manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems
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ve.bus:manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems [2018-11-14 22:30] – [Tips and hints] guy_stewart | ve.bus:manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems [2024-07-23 05:13] (current) – mleeftink | ||
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- | ====== Parallel and three phase VE.Bus systems ====== | + | ====== Parallel, split- |
- | This manual explains the details of designing, installing and configuring three-phase and parallel systems. It applies to components that use VE.Bus, for example | + | This manual explains the details of designing, installing and configuring three-phase and parallel systems. It applies to components that use VE.Bus, for example, MultiPlus, Quattro and some larger |
**IMPORTANT: | **IMPORTANT: | ||
- | * Always update all units to the latest | + | * Always update all units to the latest firmware version |
- | * Note that some parts of the description below apply only to 4xx firmwares. | + | * Note that some parts of the description below apply only to firmware version 400 and later. |
- | * All units in one system must be the same type and firmware version. The type is indicated by the first four digits of the firmware version number. For details, see the " | + | * All units in one system must be the same type and firmware version; this includes same size, system voltage, and feature set. The type is indicated by the first four digits of the firmware version number. For details, see the " |
* Specify with your [[https:// | * Specify with your [[https:// | ||
+ | * The same number of units need to be installed on each phase. An example to clarify: 3 units on L1, 3 on L2, and 3 on L3 is OK. But 2 on L1, 3 on L2 and 3 on L3 is not OK. The only way such non-symmetrical installation is supported is when using no monitoring at all, or a Digital Multi Control. Combining such system with any other monitoring device, such as the VE.Bus Smart Dongle or a GX device like the Cerbo is not supported. Numbers and information shown on the GX device as well as VRM portal will or can be wrong, and controlling the system, for example setting input current limits will not always work properly either. | ||
+ | * MultiPlus-II 8k, 10k, and 15k models can only be connected in parallel if an external AC transfer switch is used. For more information see the [[https:// | ||
+ | * While VE.Bus System Configurator allows setting up a system using Multis (each having a single AC input), that is configured to have multiple separate AC inputs, such system is not supported by GX devices. | ||
+ | * This information does __not__ apply to the Multi RS and Inverter RS models, which use a VE.Can interface (not VE.Bus) see the RS product manuals for specific information on programming them for three phase. | ||
+ | |||
===== Warning ===== | ===== Warning ===== | ||
Parallel and Multiphase systems are complex. | Parallel and Multiphase systems are complex. | ||
- | Victron is able to provide specific training for these systems to [[https:// | + | Victron is able to provide specific training for these systems to [[https:// |
- | This should be considered essential before attempting design or installation. | + | |
+ | These should | ||
- | First get experience with smaller systems. | + | First get experience with smaller systems. |
It is also recommended to hire an installer that has experience with these more complex Victron systems, for both the design and the commissioning. | It is also recommended to hire an installer that has experience with these more complex Victron systems, for both the design and the commissioning. | ||
Line 27: | Line 33: | ||
Using our 15kVA Quattros, the maximum system size is a 180kVA three phase system. Which then consists of four units on each of the three phases: 12 units in total. | Using our 15kVA Quattros, the maximum system size is a 180kVA three phase system. Which then consists of four units on each of the three phases: 12 units in total. | ||
- | Using our 10kVA Quattros, the maximum system size is a 150kVA three phase system. Which then consists | + | When using smaller models, there is a maximum |
__Single phase systems__ | __Single phase systems__ | ||
Line 38: | Line 44: | ||
===== DC and AC wiring ===== | ===== DC and AC wiring ===== | ||
- | Both the DC and AC wiring needs to be symmetrical per phase: use the same length, type and cross-section to every unit in the phase. To make this easy, use a bus-bar or power-post before and after the inverter/ | ||
+ | === Main text === | ||
The VE.Bus cluster maintains a single ' | The VE.Bus cluster maintains a single ' | ||
Also beware of sizing the battery cable and jumpers between cells/ | Also beware of sizing the battery cable and jumpers between cells/ | ||
- | For units in parallel: | + | For units in parallel: |
- | For DC, one fuse per phase is best. If a big single fuse is not available, use one fuse per unit. Same type of fuse due to same resistance. | + | With regards to AC fusing, each unit needs to be fused individually. Make sure to use the same type of fuse on each unit due to same resistance. Consider using mechanically connected fuses. |
- | Beware of phase rotation between the inverter and AC in. When wired in the wrong rotation, the system will not accept the mains input and only operates in inverter mode. In that case swap two phases | + | With regards to DC fusing, each unit needs to be fused individually. Make sure to use the same type of fuse on each unit due to same resistance. |
- | Note: Do not over-dimension the AC cabling. Using extra thick cabling has negative side effects.\\ | + | For both AC and DC fusing |
- | * Technical background: In a parallel system the AC current should be evenly distributed through all paralleled units. When the resistance in the cabling is very low, a small difference in resistance results in a large relative difference.\\ This results in bad current distribution.\\ An exaggerated example: | + | |
- | * Using 2 units (A and B) parallel | + | |
- | * Using the same 2 units in parallel with bad AC cabling one might end up with a total resistance | + | |
- | Theory and background information | + | Beware of phase rotation between the inverter and AC in. When wired in a rotation that is different to the programming of the Multis, the system will not accept the mains input and only operates in inverter mode. [[https:// |
+ | |||
+ | === Warning against over-dimensioning the AC wiring === | ||
+ | Note: Do not over-dimension the AC cabling. Using extra thick cabling has negative side effects. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Technical background: for a properly working parallel system, the AC current should be evenly distributed between the paralleled units. The resistance in the cabling helps with that and is needed for that; to overcome small differences between one inverter/ | ||
+ | |||
+ | An exaggerated example: | ||
+ | * Using 2 units (A and B) parallel and using too good cabling, one might achieve a total resistance for Unit_A of 0.0001Ω and a total resistance for Unit_B of 0.0002Ω. This results in Unit_A carrying twice as much current as Unit_B. | ||
+ | * Using the same 2 units in parallel with, for the sake of this example underdimensioned AC cabling one might end up with a total resistance for Unit_A of 15Ω and a total resistance for Unit_B of 16Ω. This results in a much better current distribution (Unit_A will carry 1.066 times more current than Unit_A) even if the absolute difference in resistance is much bigger than in the previous example (1Ω vs 0.0001Ω). | ||
+ | |||
+ | A side effect of over dimensioning the AC cabling can be faulty Power Assist operation. Out of all units, the phase master is in control and measuring the AC input current. And in case that current is (grossly) unevenly distributed between the paralleled units, the resulting total AC input current can end up being too low (under charging the battery). | ||
+ | |||
+ | === Delta configurations not supported === | ||
+ | |||
+ | For units in 3 phase configuration: | ||
+ | We do not support a delta (Δ) configuration. A delta configuration does not have a distributed neutral and will lead to certain inverter features not operating as expected. | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | |||
+ | === Theory and background information | ||
+ | |||
+ | Wiring | ||
* {{: | * {{: | ||
- | * {{: | + | * {{: |
+ | * [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
+ | |||
===== Communication wiring ===== | ===== Communication wiring ===== | ||
* All units must be daisy chained with the VE.Bus cable (RJ-45 cat5). The sequence for this is not important. Do not use terminators in the VE.Bus network. | * All units must be daisy chained with the VE.Bus cable (RJ-45 cat5). The sequence for this is not important. Do not use terminators in the VE.Bus network. | ||
* The temperature sensor can be wired to any unit in the system. For a large battery bank it is possible to wire multiple temperature sensors. The system will use the one with the highest temperature to determine the temperature compensation. | * The temperature sensor can be wired to any unit in the system. For a large battery bank it is possible to wire multiple temperature sensors. The system will use the one with the highest temperature to determine the temperature compensation. | ||
- | * Wire the voltage sense on the master of L1.\\ (If the system has more than 1 AC input, connect it to the Master corresponding to the first AC input.) | + | * Wire the voltage sense on the master of L1.\\ (If the system has more than 1 AC input, connect it to the Master corresponding to the first AC input.) |
===== Configuration ===== | ===== Configuration ===== | ||
+ | |||
+ | Note: Special considerations exist before initial power-up for large systems using Redflow batteries: [[https:// | ||
+ | |||
In the [[https:// | In the [[https:// | ||
* Up to three units: use VE.Bus Quick Configure | * Up to three units: use VE.Bus Quick Configure | ||
Line 73: | Line 105: | ||
* All charger settings, such as absorption voltage, float voltage and max charge current.\\ (The maximum charge current is multiplied by the number of units in the system: in a 9 unit system set it to 50A to get a 450A maximum charge current.) | * All charger settings, such as absorption voltage, float voltage and max charge current.\\ (The maximum charge current is multiplied by the number of units in the system: in a 9 unit system set it to 50A to get a 450A maximum charge current.) | ||
* System frequency | * System frequency | ||
- | * Whether or not "Weak LOM" is used | ||
The following settings need to be made in the master of each phase: | The following settings need to be made in the master of each phase: | ||
* Inverter output voltage | * Inverter output voltage | ||
- | * Input current limits.\\ This makes it possible to set a different | + | * Input current limits\\ |
* UPS function on/off | * UPS function on/off | ||
- | * Power Assist | + | * PowerAssist |
* Accept wide input frequency range on/off | * Accept wide input frequency range on/off | ||
The following settings need to made in each unit in the system: | The following settings need to made in each unit in the system: | ||
* Country / grid code standard and other grid related values (AC high/ low values) | * Country / grid code standard and other grid related values (AC high/ low values) | ||
* DC input low shut-down values. | * DC input low shut-down values. | ||
+ | |||
+ | Charger settings (voltage and current limits) are overridden if DVCC is configured and if a CANBus BMS is active in the system. | ||
A quick way to make settings in all units is the 'send to all units' feature. You'll see the option after making the changes to the first unit. | A quick way to make settings in all units is the 'send to all units' feature. You'll see the option after making the changes to the first unit. | ||
Note that AES is only operational in stand-alone systems. Not in parallel and multi-phase systems. | Note that AES is only operational in stand-alone systems. Not in parallel and multi-phase systems. | ||
- | |||
==== Virtual switch ==== | ==== Virtual switch ==== | ||
A unique virtual switch configuration can be configured for each unit in the system. With the exception of the Ignore AC input function: configure that in the master of L1. | A unique virtual switch configuration can be configured for each unit in the system. With the exception of the Ignore AC input function: configure that in the master of L1. | ||
==== Assistants ==== | ==== Assistants ==== | ||
- | | + | |
+ | Assistants can be used to expand the potential configuration options of your system, and are required in some installation types. When using assistants with multiple units, some assistants are required to be loaded onto all units in the system individually, | ||
+ | |||
+ | | ||
* PV Inverter Assistant needs to be loaded into each unit in the system. | * PV Inverter Assistant needs to be loaded into each unit in the system. | ||
- | * The VE.Bus BMS and the Two-Signal BMS support Assistant also need to be loaded in each unit in the system. | + | * The VE.Bus BMS and the Two-Signal BMS support Assistant also need to be loaded in each unit in the system |
- | (nb: In some cases (depending on the choices made) slaves can left out, the assistant | + | * For the [[https:// |
With all the other Assistants: genset start/stop, relay locker etcetera, a unique configuration can be made in each unit. | With all the other Assistants: genset start/stop, relay locker etcetera, a unique configuration can be made in each unit. | ||
- | |||
- | Tip: a quick way to load Assistants into each unit in the system is to save the settings after configuring the master in L1. Then open VEConfigure for an other unit and load that file. VEConfigure will automatically adapt the Assistants for the slaves. (note: In some cases you might get some warnings. Please step through the assistant in that case.) | ||
===== Tips and hints ===== | ===== Tips and hints ===== | ||
Line 108: | Line 141: | ||
* Use the help-file in VEConfigure, | * Use the help-file in VEConfigure, | ||
- | ==== System Monitoring ==== | + | ===== System Monitoring |
It is strongly recommended that a [[venus-os: | It is strongly recommended that a [[venus-os: | ||
Data from [[http:// | Data from [[http:// | ||
- | ===== DISQUS | + | |
- | ~~DISQUS~~ | + | ===== Training Video ===== |
+ | |||
+ | There is an advanced training video and competency exam for 3 phase and parallel installation and commissioning available on [[https:// | ||
+ |
ve.bus/manual_parallel_and_three_phase_systems.1542231013.txt.gz · Last modified: 2018-11-14 22:30 by guy_stewart