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--- ve.can:changing_nmea2000_instances [2023-04-09 10:57] – [1.2 Different types of instances] mvader
+++ ve.can:changing_nmea2000_instances [2025-02-06 22:04] (current) – [1.3 Considerations before changing instances] mvader
@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 As an example, take a system with two battery monitors (one for the main battery bank, and another for the hydraulic-thruster bank) and also a Quattro inverter/charger. All three of those devices will send their battery voltage measurements out on the N2K network. For the displays to show these values at the right place, they need to know which voltage belongs to what battery. That is what instances are for.
 ==== 1.2 Different types of instances ====
-There various types of instances, and for marine systems are two that matter: the Device instance and the Data instance. Details and differences of each type are explained in detail in the [[https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Cerbo_GX/en/marine-mfd-integration-by-nmea2000.html|Cerbo GX manual, NMEA 2000 chapter]].
+There various types of instances, and for marine systems are two that matter: the Device instance and the Data instance. The data instance goes by various different names, like Fluid instance, Battery instance and DC instance.
-**WARNING**: whilst it is possible to change the data instances changing them on a Victron devices such as chargers will render that device impossible to read correctly by other Victron devices. For example, changing the data instances on a Skylla-i will cause it to either not at all or not completely be visible on a GX device.
+Details and differences of each type are explained in detail in the [[https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Cerbo_GX/en/marine-mfd-integration-by-nmea-2000.html|Cerbo GX manual, NMEA 2000 chapter]].
-One exception: changing the tank instance, which is also a data instance, is no problem.
+==== 1.3 Considerations before changing instances ====
-To our knowledge, changing tank instances is only necessary on older Raymarine hardware/software.
+First of all, note that it is only rarely necessary to change either device or data instances like the Fluid-, Battery- and DC-instance. Other sections in this document explain the specifics per make of MFD brand (Garmin, Raymarine, others).
-==== 1.3 Recommend instancing setup for main MFD brands ====
+When it is necessary or required to change instances, then depending on the type of product and system used, changing instances could also affect behaviour of the Victron equipment. In more detail:
-Not all MFDs use instances the same. Some do not require setting up instances at all, others require to change the Device-instance and yet other brands require unique data instances or both.
+**GX devices, NMEA2000-out feature**
-Below documents explain the details for all major brands. Besides details on the required instancing; it also contains notes about supported, as well as non-supported, PGNs.
+All instances of the transmitted by a GX device can be set to any value, there is no related functionality. Includes device instances, and data instances.
+**Other products: Device instance**
+The NMEA 2000 device instance, which is the same as the VE.Can device instance, is by default set to 0 on all Victron products.
+Some products, such as Lynx Smart BMS, Solar chargers with a VE.Can port and Battery chargers with a VE.Can port, have functionality that relates to the device instance. Therefore make sure to read the manual of that product before changing the device instance.
+**Battery chargers: Data instances (Battery- and DC instance)**
+Whilst it is possible to change the Battery and DC instances on a Skylla-i battery charger, changing those will render it impossible for a GX device to properly read the data. This is because the GX device expects the charger's output one to be on Battery & DC instance 0, output two on Battery & DC instance 1, and output three on Battery & DC instance 2.
+==== 1.4 Recommend instancing setup for main MFD brands ====
+The only common use case we encounter in testing and support where it is necessary to change instances is with older Raymarine hardware & software:
+    * Raymarine i70: max number of tank levels is 5; fluid instance 0-4 and type must be fuel.
+    * Raymarine i70s: max number of tank levels is 5; fluid instance 0-4 and type must be fuel.
+    * Axiom MFDs: per Lighthouse version 4.1.75, a maximum of 16 tanks can be connected; fluid instance 0-15.
+Further details per brand are in these documents:
   * [[venus-os:mfd-raymarine#nmea_2000|NMEA 2000 configuration for Raymarine]]
@@ Line 31: / Line 50: @@
   * [[venus-os:mfd-navico#nmea_2000|NMEA 2000 configuration for Navico (B&G, Simrad and Lowrance]])
-==== 1.4 Different methods for setting up instances ====
+==== 1.5 Different methods for setting up instances ====
 As the NMEA2000 protocol prescribes commands to change an instance by sending commands to a device, there are various ways of changing instances. The purpose of this document is to describe all commonly used methods.
@@ Line 44: / Line 63: @@
 Chapter 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 explain these methods in detail.
-==== 1.5 Further reading on Victron and NMEA 2000 ====
+==== 1.6 Further reading on Victron and NMEA 2000 ====
   * [[ve.can:nmea-2000:start]]
   * [[https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Whitepaper-Data-communication-with-Victron-Energy-products_EN.pdf|Data communication white paper]]
-  * [[https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Cerbo_GX/en/marine-mfd-integration-by-nmea2000.html|Cerbo GX manual, NMEA 2000 chapter]]
+  * [[https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Cerbo_GX/en/marine-mfd-integration-by-nmea-2000.html|Cerbo GX manual, NMEA 2000 chapter]]
   * [[https://community.victronenergy.com/topics/NMEA%202000%20-%20N2K.html|NMEA2000 related discussions on Victron Community]]
@@ Line 81: / Line 100: @@
 Requires the [[http://www.actisense.com/product/nmea-2000-to-pc-interface-ngt-1/|Actisense NGT-1]].
-Changing a data instance:
+Step by step instructions:
   - Open Actisense NMEA Reader
   - Select data view (tab selection is at the bottom left)
-  - Right click on the PGN number. Note that this will only work on PGNs that allow changing their data instance: \\ {{:ve.can:data_instance_0.png?direct&}}
+  - Right click on the PGN number. Note that this will only work on PGNs that allow changing their data instance (first screenshot below)
-  - And change the value: \\ {{:ve.can:data_instance_1.png?direct&}}
+  - And change the value (second screenshot below)
-Notes for BMVs, Lynx Shunt and the Lynx Ion + Shunt:
+Notes:
+  * The Battery Instance and the DC instance are the same value within Victron products. Changing one of them, will also change the other one.
-  * The Battery Instance and the DC Detailed instance are the same value. Changing one of them, will also change the other one.
   * Since the BMV sends out two voltages, the main voltage and the aux- or starter-voltage, it comes preconfigured with two battery instances: 0 and 1. When you want to change that to 1 and 2, change the 1 into 2 first, and then the 0 into 1, as they cannot be the same.
+  * Changing the fluid level instance using Actisense has a bug. Probably due Actisense seeing it as 8 bit number; while in the definition it is a 4 bit number. Work around: using the GX, set the fluid type to Fuel (0), then using Actisense change the fluid instance to the desired value, and then using your GX, set the type back to the desired type.
+{{:ve.can:data_instance_0.png?direct&}}
+{{:ve.can:data_instance_1.png?direct&}}
 ===== 5. Maretron N2KAnalyzer =====
@@ Line 99: / Line 124: @@
 WARNING: At Victron we do not understand what and how the Maretron software works with regards to this. We advise to use another tool, not Maretron, so that you know what you are doing, ie know what instance you are changing.
 So far, we have not been able to use Maretron software to change a data instance. And changing the other instance, the device instance can also be done straight from the Victron GX device its user interface. To change a data instance, for example to fix instance conflicts as reported by the Maretron software, we recommend to use Actisense. Not Maretron.
-This procedure requires a Maretron USB adapter.
-Open N2KAnalyzer and make sure that the "Unique Instance" column is turned on (i.e. checked) using the Setup>Columns menu item.
-{{:ve.can:maretronn2kanalyzeruniqueinstancecolumn.jpg?850|}}
-Within the N2KAnalyzer main window, any cell with a white background can be edited by clicking in the cell and typing in the desired value. You can see from the following screen shot that a few parameters have a white background including Label and Installation Description #1. To change a devices instance, click in the Unique Instance cell for the device you want to change and type the new number followed by a carriage return. If the particular products accepts the instance change, you will see the new instance number reflected in the cell. You can also use a tool within N2KAnalyzer to check that all products on the network are uniquely instanced. Use the Analyze>Instancing menu to verify correct overall system instancing.
-{{:ve.can:maretronn2kanalyzeranalyzeinstancing.jpg?850|}}
 ===== 6. Changing the instances from the GX command line =====